NATIONAL BROADCAST - 30 September 2021

MATT WORDSWORTH, HOST: OK, let's get to the political panel now. Liberal MP for North Sydney Trent Zimmerman and Labour MP for Solomon in the Northern Territory, Luke Gosling. Welcome to both of you. Thank you so much for being for us today, for being with us today. Before we start, Trent, I'm told you're quite a Britney Spears fan, and every time you come on the show, something Britney-related happens. So as the Britney Whisperer, you must be happy that today a judge suspended her father, Jamie, from being a conservator over her.

TRENT ZIMMERMAN, MEMBER FOR NORTH SYDNEY: Well, it's great news, and I'm just sorry that PK is not here today because we're on a unity ticket on the Free Britney campaign, and it is good news today and I'm tempted to respond to any difficult questions you ask by singing a Britney song as my new strategy, but I won't subject your viewers to that.

WORDSWORTH: Yeah, I'm sure there's a quiet cheer from somewhere around Australia and from PK. Luke. I'm not sure if you're a fan of Britney Spears or a supporter of her plight. I understand you're more of a Meatloaf guy.

LUKE GOSLING, MEMBER FOR SOLOMON: Yeah, that's right, mate. Do you want some? Or…?

WORDSWORTH: Now, two out of three ain't bad. Don’t be sad.

ZIMMERMAN: You drive me crazy, Matt.

WORDSWORTH: OK, so let's get to the business of today. Treasurer Josh Frydenberg has decided that business support offered by the Commonwealth should start tapering off when vaccination rates hit 70 per cent. But the Liberal Treasurer of New South Wales, Dominic Perrottet, will keep it going. Why should there be a difference? Do businesses need help? Or they don’t?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, the first thing I'd say is that obviously what we're talking about is a transition when we reach those milestones that are in the national plan, and when we get to 80 per cent, which is the key milestone of the national plan, basically says that you shouldn't be needing city-wide, state-wide lockdowns, that you'll be relying more on health measures like contact tracing and mask wearing and social distancing. So at that point, we have a very high degree of confidence that businesses should be able to reopen, and we've got the evidence of what happened earlier this year where we've had such a strong rebound in the economy. Quite amazing, world-leading, and I think that the fundamentals mean that that will happen again. But under the national cabinet arrangements, the states did undertake to provide support for businesses while we looked after income support. Because of the scale and extent of Delta, we have been chipping into the business support, but it is appropriate that state governments, as we reach that level, look at what they need to do to support sectors of the economy.

WORDSOWRTH: So Luke Gosling, would Labor keep the payments going? And for how long?

GOSLING: Well, they obviously need to keep going to suit the economic conditions that we have. And back in March, I was saying up here in Darwin. But also my colleagues were saying, it was way too early to stop JobKeeper, particularly for those tourism-exposed businesses. And we've seen, unfortunately, a lot of them really suffer. So this time around, we need to keep that support going for as long as it's needed. And we both know, everyone knows, that all this seems to be is Mr Morrison and Mr Frydenberg punishing business owners for their own mistakes. And when I say “their own mistakes”, I mean for not being strong, not supporting lockdowns when they were required to keep a cap on infections, which has led to so many businesses struggling so much. So they should do the right thing and keep the support going, as New South Wales has said that it will, for as long as it's required.

WORDSWORTH: Luke, I'm not sure if you've seen the ABC website in the last hour or two because a colleague at 7.30, Dan Conifer, has broken a story that the COVIDSafe app has to date cost $9 million, but only identified 17 close contacts that weren't found by the states since the start of pandemic, and none in the current outbreaks in New South Wales or in the ACT. So Luke, how would you rate the COVIDSafe app?

GOSLING: It's just another example of the incompetence of the Morrison Government. We had the responsible minister, Stuart Robert – I mean, maybe he's just not very good at establishing deals when it comes to these sorts of technology. I seem to remember him having almost a $40,000 internet bill that was funded by the taxpayer at one point. But when it comes to this COVIDSafe app, we've had health professionals, tracers doing incredible work to try and limit the damage done to the lives of Australians and to the economy. Here's the Morrison Government's answer, was a COVIDSafe app that's cost at least $9 million so far and has managed to do basically nothing. So, I mean, it's a disgrace, and you would have to think after already being replaced as a minister once, perhaps it's time for the Prime Minister to move on some of these ministers that keep failing colossally whilst the Australian people and businesses continue to suffer.

WORDSWORTH: Trent Zimmerman, New South Wales Health has said to 7.30 it hasn't even accessed the data from the COVIDSafe app. Is that proof it hasn't worked?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think the comments that Jane Halton made in your interview a few moments ago, which were a little bit more reasonable and considered than the politics we've just heard, were very salient. Because basically what she said was that at the start of the pandemic, we had to basically be prepared to invest in new ways of doing things that we hadn't before, and that's what the COVIDSafe app was. I think its record is not quite as dire as those figures have put it, it has been used everywhere in New South Wales and was particularly useful in the Mounties outbreak, identifying people with that were close contacts that weren't otherwise known. But since its establishment, I think the two key things that have happened are firstly, the QR code system, but also the significant advancements in the state's contact tracing system. And that's really meant that COVIDSafe didn't become the principal tool. It became a supplementary tool to really support those efforts.

WORDSWORTH: Yeah, OK. Can I just move to Victoria now, because of those record jumps in cases there. Trent, do you think lockdown fatigue is setting in or it was just a one-off because of the grand final?

ZIMMERMAN: Oh look, I mean, at the end of the day, I think in all of our states, most of our citizens are doing the right thing, want to do the right thing. And of course, everyone's tired of lockdowns and it's having a direct impact on morale, the mental health of people. No one wants them to continue for a day longer than they have to. But when I talk to residents in my electorate, overwhelmingly, they understand that yes, they're painful. But at the end of the day, they have been so important in helping prevent even more loss of life, and even more cases. So we just have to stick with it. And most importantly, when we see those numbers, we do see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's coming.

WORDSWORTH: Yeah, you were talking about Jane Halton, we also had Mark Stevi on the program, and I asked him about the border between Victoria and New South Wales and whether it should come down. He said it's got to be spoken about soon. What's your view about whether the border should be open or closed?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think that between Victoria and New South Wales, when we get to the 70 and 80 per cent threshold, then there'll be a good case for bringing down that border. Other states who have got no COVID cases, I think you're going to be a little bit more cautious, but at the end of the day, obviously those border restrictions can't last forever, and the national plan did identify and was adopted by national cabinet at 70 and 80 per cent thresholds. So yes, proceed cautiously, as some of those other states, but we need those borders to come down if we're going to see things like tourism recover, the normal cross-border business recover. So I hope that that border between New South Wales and Victoria can come down when we get the national plan milestones.

WORDSWORTH: Luke Gosling, as a former soldier, I was just hoping to ask you about something that we learned this week. More than 1,200 veterans and serving personnel have died by suicide in the last 20 years, almost three times higher than what was previously reported. Does that ring true for you?

GOSLING: Yeah, it does, absolutely. And if the Federal Government were actually connected with the veteran community in any sort of meaningful way, they would know that those figures were always well underdone. And that's why Federal Labor pushed for a royal commission. And I still don't know why the Federal Government, the Morrison Government fought against a royal commission. And now we've just seen how low those figures were. But I just need quickly to take a take a second to reinforce to Trent. You know what Jane Halton said? Jane Halton said we needed a dedicated quarantine around this country last year, in October. And that didn't happen, and that led to hotel quarantine leaks, that led to lockdowns, that led to the calamity this country has found itself in that has cost us billions in the economy and the lives of Australians. So don't tell me I'm playing politics, because we're talking about the lives of Australians. And when we talk about the lives of Australian soldiers, those patriotic men and women that have served our country, when they have been let down by systemic failures in our veterans support system, then that's why we needed a royal commission. And this report has just backed in that there are so many of our brothers and sisters struggling. It's not politics. It's doing the right thing. And the Morrison Government better wake up and take this royal commission seriously.

WORDSWORTH: Trent Zimmerman, I’ll give you an opportunity to respond.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, look, obviously, we take the issue of defence force suicide and veteran suicide very seriously. And like Luke, there are lots of former veterans in the Coalition ranks in parliament, some of whom have been leading the charge, like Phil Thompson, for example, up in far north Queensland, because of the strong experiences he’s had in this area. So the royal commission is important, so is the interim commissioner’s report; we were on the path of establishing a permanent commission, and I think that that hopefully will provide long-term support for veterans. The royal commission is obviously going to play important role as well. We're not awaiting the final outcome of this royal commission to do the things that we need to do to make those changes as we go along. But I will just respond to Luke’s other point, and I'm sorry the two issues are being played in this way, but I think it is fundamentally factually wrong to suggest that the current Delta outbreak is a failure of hotel quarantine. It emanated from the transport of cargo flight workers in Sydney. And I think you're drawing a long bow to say that's the fault of the hotel quarantine system.

WORDSWORTH: Right, well, I might have to leave it there, but I do appreciate both of you making time for us today. That is Liberal MP Trent Zimmerman and Labour MP Luke Gosling. Thank you, gentlemen.

ENDS