NATIONAL BROADCAST - 24 August 2021
KARINA CARVALHO, HOST: Let's get more on Australia's evacuation mission out of Afghanistan. I'm joined now by Luke Gosling, a federal Labor MP and retired Army officer who served in Afghanistan. Luke Gosling, thank you for your time. How concerned are you about the security situation at Hamid Karzai Airport in Kabul?
LUKE GOSLING, MEMBER FOR SOLOMON: Good evening, Karina. Yeah, very concerned. The reports that I'm getting from the ground say that it's very difficult for people who have got visas to get to the airport. We know that there's been a number of successful evacuation flights, and that's great. The people from our Australian Defence Force, DFAT, they are doing a sterling job in getting people out. The question is, how can we get more of those who have been given visas by Home Affairs into the airport to get evacuated?
CARVALHO: Yes, there's only one week left under the existing deadline to get people out. Is that enough time to get out all of the Australians and the Afghans who worked with our ADF out of the country?
GOSLING: The reality is that it may not be, Karina, which is something that the Federal Government, obviously in consultation with the allies, will work out a plan forward. In the meantime, obviously, it behoves us to get as many of those people out, whether it be Australian nationals that are still in Kabul, or whether it be those Afghans who loyally served us, who have been given visas. As a local member – and local members around the country would have had this – we've being inundated with requests for support. A constituent of mine in Darwin was really trying to get her father out. He's since been shot dead by the Taliban. These are very serious times. And I just want to say how much we support the courage of our ADF and DFAT people in doing this important role. But how important it is that there's coordination between Home Affairs, the Department of Defence and the Department of Foreign Affairs so that we get as many of these people out as possible.
CARVALHO: That story of the woman is truly horrible. What level of support is she receiving?
GOSLING: She's got family and friends that are around her. There's a small Afghan community in Darwin. There was a candlelight vigil last night in Darwin down at our cenotaph, and that was run by veterans who are really feeling at the moment that we haven't done everything that we could do. And they're right to think that we've been very slow in this response. We are where we are. We want to move forward and make sure that we safely evacuate as many people out as possible. But the veterans lead and provide an opportunity for the community to come together, and just being together in solidarity with the Afghans, Afghan Australians, but also just giving each other comfort in this time and working out how we can help into the future.
CARVALHO: Luke Gosling, you are a retired Army officer, but I said in the introduction that you served in Afghanistan, but you didn't with the ADF, did you? You were there in a private security capacity, is that correct?
GOSLING: Yeah, I was working down in Kandahar as an adviser between the UN mission, the coalition forces and Afghan elders who were trying to run an election process. It was a very dangerous and difficult environment. And that's why I feel so much for those that have been caught out outside of Kabul with really no way to be able to even be considered for evacuation. Now, let's not forget, Karina, that we closed our embassy there in late May. So we had June and we had July. And during that time, some of our interpreters, some of those people that were so loyal to Australia were evacuated, but nowhere near enough. So that's why the veterans community is so disappointed. And that's why we've got to redouble efforts to make sure that we can get more people out, like those embassy guards that were on the frontline every day, that in some cases took bullets. You know, they checked cars for bombs, checked people for bombs. A very dangerous job. And unfortunately, we haven't been quick enough to secure their safe passage. I hope that we can. And again, if that situation at the airport deteriorates, we'll need to make some tough decisions about what we can safely do.
But this is what the ADF trains for all the time. Evacuation operations is what the ADF trains for. But with that two-month window, it's a bit puzzling why the Prime Minister had to get troops from Townsville to do this evacuation operation. Why weren't they already in the United Arab Emirates ready to respond to get more of these loyal Afghans out that saved Australian lives? That's a question the Government has to answer.
CARVALHO: Given your experience on the ground there, we know that the main Taliban leadership remains in Kandahar. They haven't made their way to Kabul as yet. Do you have any understanding of why that might be the case? We've seen that there is basically a fractured power structure in various parts of Afghanistan since the Taliban have come back to power.
GOSLING: Karina, I'm not privy to the latest intelligence brief as a member of the opposition, but as your listeners would know, Afghanistan is so complex. So at the moment there would be different power factions, not only within the Taliban, but within other organizations, not to mention the different Afghan warlords that are all positioning at the moment to see how much power and how much of a stake they can have in the future. There will also be foreign influences at the moment, that make this a very difficult time. So I just underscore how dangerous this this volatile situation is. It didn't have to be like this, we could have got more people out earlier, but just so your viewers know that our ADF people have got a very difficult job. The future for Afghanistan is obviously very uncertain. So we need to be supporting our people to do the job, getting as many people out as we can. And I encourage the Government to continue to do that and keep our people safe.
CARVALHO: And just very quickly, how many refugees from Afghanistan should we take in? The Federal Government says the 3,000 number that it's canvassed is a floor, not a ceiling.
GOSLING: And that's right, it shouldn't be a ceiling at all. We know we've got the capacity within our humanitarian intake because of COVID to take more. I wouldn't put a figure on that. That's for the Government to work out. What they need to do, obviously, is look at what capacity we have to repatriate people safely, to do the required checks to make sure that family members can get out where it's safe to do so. What that number comes to, I'm not sure, but I think we're already at least 300 people out. It's at least that much again. And there will be more, because there are so many people that are in danger at the moment and we can do more to assist them.
CARVALHO: Luke Gosling, thank you so much for taking the time to speak to us.
GOSLING: Thanks, Karina.
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