ADAM STEER, HOST:  Luke Gosling is the federal Member for Solomon. You're in Perth at the moment, Mr. Gosling. What are you doing there?

LUKE GOSLING, MEMBER FOR SOLOMON: G'day, Adam. Yeah. In the wake of the submarine announcements, I was asked to come down to Perth and travel out on a Virginia class submarine a bit outside of Perth. This, of course, is one of the submarines that are used by the US Navy and so they wanted us to have a bit of a familiarization with it and have a chat with them about things like port visits up to Darwin in the future.

STEER: You're the head of the new Parliamentary Friends of AUKUS. What is that?

GOSLING: In the Parliament there's a multitude of parliamentary friendship groups where MPs and senators with certain interests gather together and organise events, give stakeholders an opportunity to chat with MPs and senators in a more informal way. For example, last week, motorsports being so popular in the Territory, with a Liberal fella from Queensland I started the Parliamentary Friends of Motorsports. But with the Parliamentary Friends of AUKUS, it's to work with Ambassador Caroline Kennedy and also the UK High Commissioner, Vicki Treadell, who I'll catch up with today in Perth just to talk about the AUKUS arrangements and how it's going. Because it's so much more than subs, you know, it's the AI piece, it's a quantum piece, it’s the advanced technology piece. That's where a lot of the value comes. And obviously submarines are a part of that technology transfer and that advanced manufacturing piece that's going to be so important for the future of the Australian economy.

STEER: It is an eye-watering amount of money that has been earmarked for the subs. At this stage it's $386 billion with a B, $386 billion for the new subs. As Saul Eslake, one of Australia's most respected economists this morning said, there are a number of ways the Government could think about affording that, including adjustment to this third stage of tax reforms. Is that something that your government is considering, Luke Gosling?

GOSLING: Just for your listeners, I would just point out that that's over 30 years. So in in reality, it's a 0.15 per cent increase in our defence budget. So that's what the Defence Strategic Review is about. It's about looking at our whole suite of defence assets, capabilities and programs and making sure that they're good to go for the future. How we pay for that sort of modest increase I think will be a combination of what comes out of the Defence Strategic Review and other measures, but across the whole portfolio. But I think what my focus is on, particularly representing Darwin and Palmerston, is that we have the infrastructure that we need to play our part in the defence of our country and decisions about budgetary process, they'll be made in the normal way in the lead up to the budget.

STEER: Well, I mean whilst that might be far off, that huge amount of money, you do have to find $9 billion within the next four years. I think Anthony Albanese has already said $6 billion of that can be written off with the closed deal with the French subs. So you've still got to find another $3 billion. Are you ruling out at this stage any changes to that third stage of the tax reform?

GOSLING: Adam, it's not my role to rule anything in or out. What the Treasurer has said is that our position is still with those legislated tax cuts. Obviously we understand how important it is not to add to the trillion dollars in debt that were left to us by the by the Coalition when we took government last year. So we need to make some decisions, as we already have with superannuation. And unfortunately what we saw the Coalition do is go into bat for the 0.5 per cent of people with over $3 million in their super funds. But the reality is that we need to find places where there's very generous tax breaks and look at what we can do to make sure that our system, including our defence spend, is sustainable into the future.

STEER: So that defence review paper, when is that going to come out, do you know?

GOSLING: Yeah, it'll be next month. As to our Government's response to it, obviously it's been received by the Government and being looked through at the moment, and the decisions that will flow from that will mean that there will be some changes to the Defence Force. But what has been my driving objective in the in the last— well, since coming to the seat of Solomon in 2016, is make sure that it's totally understood in Canberra the important role that we play as a forward operating base for the nation, not only for border security but for things like naval operations and our work with our allies. So the DSR is going to be good for Darwin and good for the Northern Territory. There's going to be more infrastructure spend, that's more jobs for Territorians as well as, you know, making sure that we're prepared to play our role into the future.

STEER: So you've had a look at the paper and it's going to mean more jobs and more infrastructure here in the Northern Territory defence, is that right?

GOSLING: Yeah. Well Adam, that's for sure. I mean there's always battles to fight about different capabilities. Some capabilities coming in and we want to limit the amount of capabilities and people that are going out. Navy will be a big increase. But we saw what happened with the last government, the Coalition government, where a lot of our troops and units were sent down to Adelaide. We want to make sure that people understand that where the good training areas are is in the north. And the Americans know that. The Japanese know that. We're going to have a lot of visitors to the Top End this year for exercises, and they're all very welcome. And we hope they enjoy their time while they're with us. It's a really important part of our economy and the Defence Strategic Review will state plainly how important the North is, Darwin in particular.

STEER: But what can we read out of that? Are the tanks coming back? How much money or how many further personnel can we expect in the Top End when that defence review paper is officially announced next month?

GOSLING: Yeah. Adam, I'd love to give you all the scoops this morning—

STEER: That’s the idea.

GOSLING: But yeah, we'll make sure that Richard Marles comes on your program for a chat. And it's something that I've talked with Richard about for many years, as I've said, and what was going to be a force distribution or force positioning review – because it was his view that we needed to be more in the north, more operating in the region in which any challenges or threats will come from. And that operating environment that we need to be very competent in. But then that turned into a broader Defence Strategic Review, and that's good. And we look forward to letting people know what the plan is next month.

STEER: Luke Gosling, good to talk to you this morning. Have you been on a submarine before?

GOSLING: Yeah, I've been on one of our submarines, the Collins class submarines, and they are an awesome capability. So Territorians don't need to be concerned about any capability gap, because there's Collins class submarines and they're incredibly capable. But it's just into the 2030s, nuclear powered, a nuclear propulsion system allows you to be quieter for longer under the ocean and have the speed and endurance that we need to be competitive. It's not about an arms race. It's just about being competitive. So Collins class are good. And they’ll provide us with the capability until we get our first Virginia class. Looking forward to going on the Virginia class today and having a chat with the with the American submariners.

STEER: But what do they smell like when you're under the water?

GOSLING: What do you reckon, after a couple of months underwater?

STEER: Exactly.

GOSLING: They'll be fresh. So they'll be glad when they get to shore. And they'll always be welcome in Darwin.

STEER: Thank you, Luke Gosling. We'll talk to you soon.

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