NATIONAL BROADCAST - 8 July 2021

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Let's stay on this conversation with my political panel this afternoon in Sydney. Liberal MP Trent Zimmerman is my guest, and in Darwin, Labor MP Luke Gosling. Welcome to both of you. Now, you have just heard from my last guest, only 15 per cent of his [aged care] staff is fully vaccinated. Trent, should the Government be replicating that model, which he just suggested, that you do a rollout of the jabs on the premises for staff?

TRENT ZIMMERMAN, MEMBER FOR NORTH SYDNEY: Well, I think that obviously the Government's first priority was to get those that are most vulnerable – the actual aged care residents – vaccinated. And we've effectively reached 100 per cent getting both doses now, which is a great outcome. And also we're now working on supporting aged care workers, and they've got multiple options, actually. They have a special vaccination hubs that have been set up for aged care workers. Obviously, some have been able to get the vaccination in their aged care centres.

And we now have teams going around to aged care centres to effectively offer vaccines to those aged care residents that may not receive one the first time because the guardians themselves declined to do so. So I'd like to think there's some potential to include aged care workers on premises as part of that.

KARVELAS: Luke Gosling. What's your take on the way this should be proceeding?

LUKE GOSLING, MEMBER FOR SOLOMON: Ah, just get on and do it. I think it's been an incredibly slow and dysfunctional rollout so far. There's no doubt that as soon as we get more providers actively involved in the process, the quicker it will happen. And I guess the problem is, Patricia, that there has been no national leadership, that's been really lacking. So we've lacked that mobilization that's required to get the most out of the public system and the private system. And I guess that's where Australians have been let down and that's why the rollout figures are so low.

KARVELAS: Trent Zimmerman, the Sydney lockdown has been extended. And yesterday there were some comments from your health minister for New South Wales. Today, Gladys Berejiklian has kind of clarified that she does think that the virus needs to be really, really – the community transmission needs to be dealt with before any lockdown ends. That could actually take some time. Do you agree that you need to actually get to zero community transmission before you can open up?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, that has to be the goal because obviously, whilst there is community transmission occurring, then we know from this insidious virus how quickly it can rebound. Remembering that this started from one transport worker conveying international air crew and it just took one person to create the situation we're currently in. So sadly, I do think that we need to get to the stage where effectively community transmission has come to an end. You could still some see some cases occurring, I suppose, in home quarantine circumstances, because obviously, if people are quarantined and they pass it to other family members who are also in quarantine, then that risk profile is considerably less. But I do think that obviously they need to get on top of it. And I took away from the Premier's comments today that that's the New South Wales goal and intention.

KARVELAS: And do you accept – and I'm sort of staying with you because you're a Sydney MP, too, so this really affects you – that might take a while. I mean, you know, doing it in a week, that would be great. I really hope you guys can, but it might take longer. And do people need to be prepared for a longer lockdown?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm trying to be optimistic, but I think that what we do know is the Premier will act on the health advice, and that's the important thing. That's important thing for keeping us all safe. And look, I understand the frustration that many are feeling. I feel particularly for those businesses that have been devastated by this lockdown. It particularly affects businesses that are working in some of our big business hubs where you don't have the local high street traffic that can sustain them. But also, obviously, in particular areas, it's just another devastating blow, for example, to tourism operators.

KARVELAS: So Luke Gosling, should they be bringing back JobKeeper given we’re in the second year of what could be an extended lockdown?

GOSLING: Yeah, I think that was the problem with ending JobKeeper when they did, obviously Labor was pretty clear that when JobKeeper got turned off should relate to the conditions at the time. And there was no doubt that with the vaccination rates so abysmally low and with hotel quarantine which kept leaking – I think we're up to 26 times – that they were going to be further lockdowns. So JobKeeper needed to be kept for the times when it's needed. And New South Wales, who I really feel for – I’ve lived in Sydney, I really feel for everyone down in New South Wales.

But I'll tell you what, up here in the Northern Territory, we’re a smaller jurisdiction, but when we had those leaks that came out of the Queensland hotel quarantine into the Territory, we locked down immediately and hard. And that's for one week, last week. Restrictions may lift at the end of this week if there's no more transmission. So I just say we've got to learn from best practice. Howard Springs up here is best practice as a dedicated quarantine facility. Until we get this right and get the vaccine rolled out, get dedicated quarantine facilities around the country, we're going to see this happen over and over again. And the businesses deserve better. People in New South Wales also deserve better and I’m very much feeling for them right now.

KARVELAS: Yeah, I'm feeling for them, too. So in that context, Trent Zimmerman, we know that the New South Wales Treasurer wanted JobKeeper reinstated. The liquid assets test has been removed today, for people to get the new emergency payment. If it's a longer lockdown, don't you need better support?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I'd make a couple of points. Firstly, in relation to Luke’s, Labor was predicting when JobKeeper ended at the end of March, that it would lead to a surge in people seeking unemployment benefits; that didn't happen. And, of course, the strength of our approach to supporting the economy through this is demonstrated so dramatically in the fact that in a small miracle, unemployment is back down to where it was before the pandemic started at 5.1 per cent. I think that what we need to do is make sure that we have the right support arrangements for when these outbreaks do occur. And hopefully they are going to be a receding issue. But that the Delta variant obviously has introduced a new challenge in that regard. So I think the disaster payment approach is the right approach. And we've now got a good formula where the states look after business support and we look after household support through those disaster payment arrangements.

KARVELAS: Trent Zimmerman, just staying with you again, we've got this announcement that there'll be a police operation, 100 police going into south-western Sydney. A lot of people pointing out that that didn't happen in Bondi, didn't happen in the eastern suburbs, even though there were high rates and high cases. Doesn’t it look like ethnic communities, poorer communities are being targeted?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, look, I never try to question the operational decisions the police make, because that's their responsibility and politicians shouldn't get involved in that. So they obviously have to make their own assessment about where the need’s greatest to enforce the health orders. I would just comment, though, I have to say that police patrolling – and in fact, I remember many incidents of people sunbathing on Bondi Beach were running afoul of police that were doing that. I remember images of police driving through Rushcutters Bay Park and things like that in the previous period – so I think the enforcement action has been city-wide. So what is important to make the police action relevant is that we do need all residents of Sydney – not just in the south-west, but across the board – to be following the health orders and the directions of the Premier and the Health Minister. That's really our best pathway out. And we just can't say too many times these health orders are not being put in place for any other reason other than to protect Sydneysiders. And we get out of this quicker when we follow them.

KARVELAS: I can guarantee that as someone who went through a long lockdown: follow the rules, get out of it.

ZIMMERMAN: Go get vaccinated.

KARVELAS: Yeah, absolutely. If you can. That's a supply issue. Let's not go there.

ZIMMERMAN: One point is that there are something like 800,000 people over the age of 70 who haven't had a first dose yet. There is no shortage of AstraZeneca supplies. So I'd really encourage anyone in those older age groups, the most vulnerable, not to hesitate.

KARVELAS: Now just a quick response from you, Luke Gosling, if I can, on that issue of disproportionate policing for one community over another.

GOSLING: Oh, it's standard practice with this mob, Patricia. Look, we know that a lot of leaks have come from very wealthy, very affluent people from the suburbs like where Trent lives, who have gone overseas seemingly at will, come back, taken shortcuts, and inflicted this sort of situation with a lack of leadership from Prime Minister Morrison, where people are confused and people are losing faith in health orders because they can't see any leadership and they can't see any sense. So I would really hope that things were done fairly and there was a better public communications campaign.

KARVELAS: A 30-second answer for you, Trent Zimmerman, on this. I have to ask you, because I think it's in your electorate. The Joey’s boys all getting vaccinated when they were older people still not vaccinated, vulnerable people still not vaccinated. Looks like elitism, isn't it? How did they skip the queue?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I mean, Labor based on Luke Gosling’s response are happy to try and inflame those type of things –

KARVELAS: But if it's true, I mean –

ZIMMERMAN: But look, I’m happy to review it. Yes, of course it’s true, they got vaccinated, 160 boarders got vaccinated. Look, I've spoken to the principal, the headmaster who is in my electorate, and they did the right thing several months ago. They said we have students, Indigenous students – because they have a great scholarship program returning to remote and regional areas. They asked Health whether they should be getting them vaccinated. Health said yes. And so the school was trying to do the right thing, Health made a mistake. The Health department’s admitted that, it’s 160 out of a million –

KARVELAS: But they turned up with other students, not just their Indigenous students. But let's just park it because I've run out of time. That's the truth. Thank you to both of you. In Sydney, Liberal MP Trent Zimmerman. And in Darwin, Labor MP Luke Gosling. And that’s it for  Afternoon Briefing for today.

ENDS